I know everyone is excited about Focus RS...

"BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast." (boxerfanatic) 03/25/2015 at 15:42 • Filed to: Ford, Focus RS, Probe GT, Subaru, SVX, Coupe, Grand Touring, AWD

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But why doesn't it look as good as it potentially will drive?

How could it be wrong to offer the Focus RS drivetrain and tech, in an actually good looking, sleek body for people who want a performance car that doesn't look like a carp-faced tarted-up econobox?

Is there truly no room in Fords' global, multi-brand repertoire for more coupes than just Mustang, and the ultra-rare upcoming GT?

They have done good looking coupe alternatives to Mustang before... Imagine the Probe GT's looks, with 21st-century tech, 315 horsepower, high end suspension and brakes, with torque-vectoring AWD...

I had one of these Probe GTs back in the day... and it was a wonderful car to own, and it's only big downside was FWD... some torque steer, more than a little under-steer, and over-powering the front tires when trying to accelerate and turn, or in low-traction situations.

My SVX was better in some respects with more power from a bigger flat-6, and with AWD... but it didn't have a manual gearbox, or the lift-back hatch versatility that the Mazda-built Probe GT did. I wished it had the lift back and the stick. Focus RS's drivetrain can do that.

If Focus RS is going to take the fight to WRX STI... maybe Ford could build an SVX successor, a true all-season Grand Touring Coupe, as well, if Subaru isn't going to step up.

bob and john > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/25/2015 at 15:44

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My parents used to have aprobe EXACTLY like this. Dark blue, 5 spokes, GT. I miss tht car.

E. Julius > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/25/2015 at 15:46

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I agree with you, but I imagine the additional engineering costs of adapting it to a new body might make it unprofitable to sell it in the first place. I don't mind what body it's in if the choice is between getting that sweet, sweet drivetrain or not getting it at all.

fhrblig > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/25/2015 at 15:47

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I always thought Ford nailed the styling of the 2nd generation Probe. Great looking car.

CB > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/25/2015 at 15:51

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As E. Julius said, it has to do with engineering an entirely new car. It's cheaper to do it this way. Maybe if we're lucky, we might see this layout in other cars (Fusion RS, anyone?), but I don't see them building an entirely new car just for this.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/25/2015 at 15:51

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My cousin's first car was a Probe GT, and like any 16 year old, he riced the fuck out of it. It was still a super fun car though.

Zohaibman72 > CB 03/25/2015 at 15:53

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FUSION RS YES PLEASE

Rs should be a whole brand, like SRT or AMG.

Fusion RS, Taurus RS, Explorer RS.

Textured Soy Protein > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/25/2015 at 15:54

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Affordable performance coupes that aren't base-model V6 muscle cars don't sell well anymore, so car companies don't build them anymore. Hell, what cheap coupes even exist at all? Accord, Mini, Genesis, Veloster, Toyobaru, and tC are the only ones coming to mind for me.

Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed > fhrblig 03/25/2015 at 15:54

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They do have a certain unique lithe look to them, although I bet critics at the time were wishing the Probe could be as good looking as its platform mate.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > E. Julius 03/25/2015 at 15:56

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Focus RS is a reality, it is not in doubt.

Engineering costs become amortized faster with wider application. Economies of scale make it BETTER, and less expensive, not more prohibitive.

I don't care if they would call it a Fusion Coupe... whatever... I don't even care if LINCOLN builds it as a Mark-series coupe based on MKZ's styling and features, even if it has to use a dual-clutch transaxle rather than a manual gearbox, with the torque vectoring rear diff... (just no CVTs or torque-converters... please.)

Ford does multiple global variants of all of their platforms, save maybe S550 Mustang being a sole-model platform so far.

I just don't want a 5-door carp-looking tarted-up econo-box... I wasn't thrilled about WRX STI being that, either... despite it's great drivetrain, also.

I don't mind 5-doors... but it had better have ground clearance as well as AWD (compact or mid-sized CUV), if it isn't going to be a 3-door sport coupe.

As much as I love AWD, I can't afford to spend that kind of money for something I don't entirely want... and I don't want a 5-door passenger car in addition to the V6 AWD CUV I already have, and is already more practical.

I DO want a sport coupe... but I need to be able to drive it every day through any winter conditions, and I am fed up with tiny trunk lids... As cool as the new Mustang is... it is still tail-happy, and it still isn't a fastback hatch anymore.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > bob and john 03/25/2015 at 16:01

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I had an Electric Currant Red '93, which looked good, but I frequently wished it was this color blue.

I miss everything about it, except it getting stuck and spinning the front tires, or severely plowing under-steer in any amount of snow... albeit with all-season performance tires, not dedicated snow tires... I was in college, I didn't have money or space for snow tires then.

And the one time I had to buy an ignition coil for the Mazda 2.5L V6 engine... they kept selling me Ford external ignition coils, despite the part number mis-match, and the mazda coil being internal to the cam-driven electronic distributor. It didn't have coil-on-plug ignition, despite the '92 SVX that I later owned, that did have that.

doodon2whls > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/25/2015 at 16:04

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You said 'Probe'....

OK, but seriously.....

The Probe was a great platform and ahead of it's time... Ford actually (humorously) thought that the Probe would replace the Mustang nameplate/platform... Unfortunately, it never caught on, but I always thought the Probe GT was a pretty sweet whip.

Tohru > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/25/2015 at 16:06

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I had a '94 Ford Probe SE in that dark blue. 2 liter, 5 speed, 3 spoke directional alloys.

It'll be posted tomorrow at 11am/10am Central for #ThrowbackThursday.

E. Julius > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/25/2015 at 16:06

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I know they're making the Focus RS, I'm just saying they might not have thought it would be worth it to design a completely new body for a small sport coupe in addition to that as well. You're right about the engineering costs to an extent, but I also think there is a problem that they just wouldn't sell enough of them. Regardless of what the outcome may be, it's a cool idea but it sadly isn't happening : (

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > doodon2whls 03/25/2015 at 16:10

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It was supposed to replace the Fox Mustang in the 1980s, about the same time Celica went FWD, but Supra didn't, and those models split, too.

The outcry by Mustang fans was enough to make the decision for them to co-exist.

They did well, but died out after 1997, the same time that ALL of the imported coupes were dying, due to a huge marketing push to higher-profit, CAFE-favored SUVs, and the exchange rate with the japanese Yen crashed, and killed import affordability.

Mustang barely survived that era by being stone simple, and perpetually cheap... F-body and DSM coupes didn't survive, either, nor did Toyota, Honda, Subaru, or Nissan coupes of the time.

It may not have been a HUGE seller, but it did OK for itself, but the whole coupe market crashed.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > E. Julius 03/25/2015 at 16:14

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I think people under-estimate the appeal.

There hasn't been a modern AWD 3-door fastback coupe to make a real go of it.

FWD coupes have been milquetoast, and boring.

RWD coupes have either been muscle machines, or under-powered in BRZ/FR-S/GT86's case.

None of them have been "right size", hatchback-versatile, AWD, with compelling amounts of power output.

Most people probably didn't think that Subaru WRX would go like gangbusters in 2000-2001, either... and it didn't even have good looks on it's side. It went gangbusters on AWD performance alone... which now Focus RS is hoping to get in on also.

This premise has not been tried anywhere close enough, or well enough, to be called a failure.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed 03/25/2015 at 16:19

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Mazda MX6 LOST to the Probe.

1993 Motor Trend Car of the Year... 5 front-drive sport coupes duked it out... Probe GT got FIRST PLACE, and was the Car of the Year. MX6, technically the same platform, got LAST place, due to numb handling calibration, less dramatic looks inside and out, and less versatility with a trunk lid than Probe's (and the smaller, lighter MX3's) hatch.

The Mazda-built Ford Probe GT had it ALL OVER MX6, for being essentially sister cars.

fhrblig > Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed 03/25/2015 at 16:21

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See, I never liked the way that MX-6 looked. Too blobby.

E. Julius > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/25/2015 at 16:22

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I don't think anybody called it a failure, it's just that nobody is making one right now. Hopefully we'll see some compelling product in the future.

nermal > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/25/2015 at 16:24

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I think you're on to something. A modern Probe w/ the RS drivetrain would be sweet.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Textured Soy Protein 03/25/2015 at 16:29

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None of those are gorgeous.

None of those are AWD. FWD sucks, and RWD is problematic in adverse conditions. AWD has superiority appeal.

Few of those have over 250 horsepower.

Only the UGLY Veloster and tC are 3-door lift backs... and everything other than that trait, is a discouragement.

None of those have had an actually competent MARKETING PUSH, because they aren't worth pushing.

Bad execution is not equivalent to a bad premise.

A coupe MUST be compelling, otherwise it will ALWAYS loose out to something more practical when an emotional desire is removed from the equation.

Bad coupes are worse than boring cars of any other body style... but gorgeous coupes sell themselves, especially if they have the technical prowess to cash the check that their good looks are writing.

If performance coupes, including high-powered, AWD ones, are so bad... why are there so many of them at higher price points? Everything from Nissan GT-R, Porsche Carrera 4/Turbo, Lamborghini Huracan, Audi R8, etc....

What is un-appealing about that premise, brought down into an affordable realm?

It hasn't been properly done yet after the yen crash killed ALL the sport coupes, save the cheap-as-hell SN95 Mustang in the late '90s, so how can it be ascribed to be a failure?

Many of the coupes have come back... from Nissan Z to Camaro... no AWD affordable coupes have come back... and as I mentioned, none of them looking good enough to be compelling, which is what a COUPE is best at.... good looks to go with their performance aspect.

Maybe it might kick off some more enthusiasm for cars, if there were more cars worth being enthusiastic about, not just on tech, but aesthetically, at the same time.

Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/25/2015 at 16:30

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Harsh. So much for my mx-6 future classic theory.

Unfortunately most of the Probes I see now are beat-to-hell shitheaps, and I've never seen an MX-6 without a F&F style bodykit. Such is the plight of affordable "sport" coupes I guess.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/25/2015 at 16:30

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I agree with you on all points.

When I was 22 I had a WRX. It was Rally Pearl Blue, OZ wheels, and had a loud exhaust on it. I loved it and still regret selling it to this day. That said, I'm 30 now, and while I miss the performance and capability of my WRX, I don't miss it's outlandish boy-racer looks and sound.

The RS manages to look both outlandish and ugly. I would strongly consider one as my next car. I mean REALLY give it hard look, and I've been a GM guy all my life, but I think it's just that good. But it just doesn't look the part. At least clean up the front end and ditch that weird plasticky looking bumper and go back to the ST fish mouth or something.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Short-throw Granny Shifter is 2 #blessed 2b stressed 03/25/2015 at 16:32

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I do apologize, it was a bit too harshly expressed.

And I agree with the unfortunate treatment of Ford Probes on the 2nd or 3rd-hand market... they do seem to be abused.

Maybe MX6 might be a rarity... but I still think side-by-side, Probe GT was the better of the two.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > CB 03/25/2015 at 16:43

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It puzzles me as to how people think that a new body style is somehow an entirely re-engineered car...

There are SO MANY variants, including differing body-styles, from 5-doors, to sedans, to CUVS, all built on the same factory lines amongst each other, with the same chassis hard-points.

Manufacturing is modular, and design is rapid-prototyped, and versatile.

Building a coupe on Ford's transverse platform would be EASY for a company the size of Ford, and several other manufacturers do justify a transverse coupe...

Yet none have yet to cash in on a truly well executed, all-points, no-excuses, lust-worthy epitome yet... instead, people concede that possibility as a failure before it has even been tried, because other, inferior, less appealing transverse coupes, in various other economic circumstances, have failed in the past.

As I have said... a less-than-great coupe is worse than a bland vehicle of any other body-style, such as sedans, or CUVs... because those other body-styles can fall back on practicality or tradition.

A bad coupe doesn't get purchased, because someone can buy a boring anything-else, and have more practicality.

A GREAT coupe sells itself, and makes people WANT to have it, despite a little less practicality, because it is great to look at, and fun to drive. Single people can justify less practicality, and families can also perhaps justify it as a second car, in addition to something else more practical.

Coupes like that tend to either do quite well, or not... and most companies would rather play it safer than that.

Nobody put a poster of an economy car on their bedroom wall as a kid, though.

CB > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/25/2015 at 16:48

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"Nobody put a poster of an economy car on their bedroom wall as a kid, though."

If you want to get technical...

But I get what you're saying. And sure, the platform may be there, but a new body style means new testing for aerodynamics and safety considerations (which, if Ford wanted to go global, would have to be done in Europe and North America). Why do that when you have a body style in use and a namesake that the big fans know?

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > CB 03/25/2015 at 16:53

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Because it has to be more than about numbers. Staying safe with an existing, established, overly-pragmatic, yet still ugly body style, rather than taking a bit more risk with a better looking alternative, is bean-counter-think.

Bean-counter-think doesn't produce block-busters... it produces "just good enough" to overcome the excuses.

Just enough performance goodness to get it to sell despite the 'ugly' it outwardly wears.

CB > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/25/2015 at 16:55

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Maybe if they play it safe now, they can fiddle around with the system and use it for something else in the future?

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > CB 03/25/2015 at 17:01

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playing it safe tends to breed more of the same, not future risk-taking.

That 'future' can always be pragmatically rationalized into never becoming the present.

Keep in mind, I am not saying that the Focus RS shouldn't exist, as is...

I just think there should be a sexy, sleek, poster-worthy car with the same drivetrain and under-pinnings, right beside it in the showroom.

Or maybe down the line in the Lincoln showroom with nicer amenities and a dual-clutch... at least SOMETHING worth actually setting eyes on.

I don't know about other people, but my eyes are weary of same-old boring, over-styled, oddly-proportioned, and even down-right UGLY cars.

And I am sick of the great looking cars being exclusively reserved for the people wealthy enough to take them for granted.

Attractive sheet metal, glass, and plastic can be rendered at affordable prices, just as well as ugly pieces can be... the material costs are essentially the same.

Textured Soy Protein > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 03/25/2015 at 17:53

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I don't mean to say that cheap and fun coupes are a bad idea. But the car companies have moved away from them because they haven't been able to sell them.

It'd be great if this was still the 90s or early 00s and you could choose from Integra, RSX, Probe, Prelude, Civic Si, MX-6, Eclipse, 240SX, Impreza, MR2 and Celica. Plus a bunch of more-expensive step up cars from there. But those are all Japanese (since the Probe was a joint venture with Mazda) and the Japanese companies are much more conservative in choosing the types of cars they make anymore.

A lot of it is because performance cars have totally fallen out of favor in Japan. Mostly because of demographics where now the young people who would buy those types of cars can't afford to pay the taxes and parking fees, and the older, richer people who can afford to have cars don't want cheap performance cars.